 |
View
previous topic :: View
next topic |
Author |
Message |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:26 pm Post
subject: To Build A Ship....the HMS Victory and
Cleopatra |
|
|
This thread
started over at the original Cardmodels.net site. It
should be complete in almost every respect except for the the
occasional off-topic forray. I've included the original
poster's name above each installment.
By Larrymax

Well, gang,
here we go! This is the beginning of a new thread that will
cover the building of two Sailing Ship Models, the HMS
Victory, being built by Gil, and the HMS Cleopatra, being
built by Max. The idea for this thread came about after some
discussion about ship models and some reference material
suggested by our beloved Rick!. Our goal is to have a forum
where we can track each others progress, ask questions about
techniques (several of which have already come up in the afore
mentioned thread!), post some progress pics, and, hopefully,
encourage each other to actually FINISH these MASSIVE
undertakings! My best guess is a completion date somewhere
around NEXT THANKSGIVING! All are welcome to read and follow
along with Gil and I as we go about the construction of these
beautiful kits. Hopefully, you will be inspired to purchase
one yourself and join in on the building process. At the very
least, there will SURELY (...and don't call me Shirley!) be
many useful ideas that can apply to any other paper model you
may be working on. Feel free to chime in with suggestions! So,
without further ado, in the words of the immortal Jackie
Gleason..."and awaaaaay we go!"
Last edited
by Ron on Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in
total | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:27 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Darwin
Aw geeze,
guys, can't I play too? ----- Live long and
prosper. | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:28 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Nobi
Hi There,
Cant believe it is a paper...but i must believe.
that's why i love papermodel.
----- Best Regards
NOBI
"If the model turns into a failure --
immediately tell everyone it's a prototype"
Visit
Paper Modeling Group at http://groups.msn.com/PaperModeling/ | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:29 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Gil
Hello All,
The HMS Victory by Shipyard is a 1:96 scale model of
Admiral Nelson's Flagship in the celebrated Battle of
Trafalgar in which Britain defeated the combined French and
Spanish fleet off the coast of Spain on October 21, 1805
without losing a ship (Nelson died as a result of a snipers
shot). It stands as a lasting monument to Britannia when she
ruled the waves.
An interesting thing that I've found
is there's no indication of the models size (I don't do Polish
so that might be a big problem). The directions are only
several paragraphs that could use a better translation. In
defense of the lack of printed instructions and my lack of the
Polish language there are however, very good line drawings
which don't leave much to the imagination and most likely will
suffice as the only building aids that I'll need (notice also
that I ordered "Anatomy of a Ship, HMS Victory" just in case).
The following delineates the as delivered paper content.
The model comes in a three staple folded page book
format and is 421mm x 303mm in size. The model itself concists
of:
o 18 pages of card stock (~ 80# stock) o 24
pages plain (~ 20# stock) o 1 page (~ 24# glossy stock)
Another 5 glossy pages are devoted to cover, back
cover and pictures of the real Victory in Portsmouth, UK. I
think I remember that this model is somewhere near 3 foot in
length which I'll verify over the next several days.
My first impression is this is not for beginners. Lack
of adequate assembly instructions imply that you had better
have a better than average knowlege of shipbuilding in general
and model shipbuiliding in particular as this kit has
thousands of parts that need to be organized as a model ship
(that's the general idea at least). Oh! one other point, there
doesn't seem to be a picture of the actual model anywhere in
the published model? I'm not sure that's a mistake.
Enough for now, Gil
[Edited by Gil on
2003-11-13 2:58 AM]
----- I Got
Carded! | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:30 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Larrymax
Gil,
Terriffic Intro to your Vicory! I can concur with everything
you have said about the kit as it comes delivered. Booklet
form, cardstock pages of parts, plain paper pages of parts,
and a single glossy page of color trim parts. I think one of
the most overwhelming things in looking through all the parts
is the sheer quantity of very small parts...there are easily
several hundred blocks and tackle bits alone! All of which
consist of 3 or 4 pieces to put togegether! Another thing I
have noticed is the "templates" provided for the Masts and
Spars. Simple outlines of proper length and taper, with a
small circle denoting the proper diameter. Obviously, they
intend you to create you own Masts and Spars, presumably from
wood, but, being somewhat of a purist, I may try my hand at
forming them from paper. (at least once, anyway!) I would have
to agree with Gil, I certainly would not recommend any model
ship of this magnitude to anyone without at least a moderate
level of experience in paper modeling. Fortunately for me,
I've been building paper models for about four years now and
have build half a dozen wooden ship models. The lack of
instructions will be challenging, but, as Gil mentioned, the
assembly diagrams are large and very detailed and should be
adquate to get through most assembly issues. I find myself
taking the booklet out every evening to just stare at it. I,
too, noticed there are many beautiful pictures of the finished
product, but, suspiciously, they look like pics of a wooden
ship model!! If our models come out looking HALF as beautiful
as those pics, I will be very satisfied and proud. Can't wait
to get started....perhaps this evening....probably this
weekend!
Darwin, OF COURSE you can play, too!! All of
you can! What are you going to build, Darwin?
Anxiously waiting to get started, Max | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:31 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Gil
Hello All,
On the subject of masts and spars..., I suspect the
reason for not including them is the amount of paper required
for an adequate looking mast or spar. I have experimented with
different tube rolling techniques over time and have found
that using radial rolling for masts and trapezoidal rolling
for spars delivers a most satisfying product. It's actually
easier than most even suspect and after a few experimental
rolls using starter rods and scoring techniques a quite right
mast or spar can be turned out at an amazingly rapid pace.
Best regarfds, Gil ----- I Got
Carded! | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:31 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Larrymax
I have
experimented with different tube rolling techniques over time
and have found that using radial rolling for masts and
trapezoidal rolling for spars delivers a most satisfying
product.
All right Gil....you're not getting off THAT
easy....would you like to explain or show a picture or two of
what you mean by "radial" rolling and "trapezoidal" rolling.
Easy for you! | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:32 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Darwin
You force
me to dig it out of the archives....A FlyModel USS
Constitution. Guess I'd better fire up the scanner and get
going on it. As a little share regarding the rigging....on one
of my trips down to Michaels Crafts I found hanks of hemp
string that look like they will work perfectly for the
standing rigging. this year's crop of chickens are out of the
dungeon and into the chicken coop, so have some room in the
basement to set up a card table and start butchering paper.
----- Live long and prosper. | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:33 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Larrymax
Well, I
got all my hull formers scanned and printed last night. Had to
do some re-arranging of the parts as the model parts are
outside the printing margins of my printer. Thank goodness for
Photoshop! Also, when I mess one of them up, I still have the
original template to go back to! Next, get them glued to my
chipboard backing and start cutting them out! I think I'm
going to need another box of 100 exacto blades!
Another thought has crossed my mind.....would it be
cheating to purchase premade wooden block for this kit? That
would certainly make life sooooooo much easier.....those
blocks are sooo tiny, it'll take forever to cut them out and
assemble them! Ah, the age old question!...to be, or not to
be, a purist! Your thoughts, Gil, Darwin? | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:33 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Gil
Hello All,
Larry, I suppose you're speaking of the blocks for the
rigging. Buying already made is perfectly OK in fact
recommended if it makes the model better. One caveat though is
that they must be of the correct scale. The blocks used on the
lower sails were actually scaled with the size of the lines
which were used. Large lines were used on the lower, mid size
on the middle and light lines on the top (I haven't done the
calculations for 1:96 but will in the course of the build).
The type used must conform also with those used in the period.
Have you decided what type of material you're going to use for
your lines as this brings up a whole new subject. Constructing
the model is only about 40% of the job, rigging, sailmaking
and outfitting will take the rest (you are rigging it withs
sails aren't you?).
Enough for now.
Best
regards, Gil
Post Scriptum: I suggest that you
concentrate on the hull construction for the moment. Shipyard
nearly guarantees that the frames will be in the proper
position if all is cutout accurately. Also you should think
about a method to cradle the hull so it can be rotated around
it's fore/aft axis. This really makes building a lot easier.
[Edited by Gil on 2003-11-14 4:37 PM]
-----
I Got Carded! | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:36 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Larrymax
Hmmmm....thanks for the tip (and the justification!)
on the blocks, Gil. We have a pretty well supplied hobby store
not too far away with a great selection of wooden ship parts
in all different scales....looks like I'll be paying them a
visit soon to have a look at blocks and rigging line, as well
as anchor chain, maybe even belaying pins. I haven't given too
much thought to the sails, yet, but I have used Silkspan, dyed
in tea, on other models with great success...looks really
nice. I may purchase this Keel Clamp from Modelexpo.com ....
$60.00 is a little pricey, but it sure would come in handy!
Maybe I can make one up myself...we'll see
 | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:37 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Peter H
A
wonderful thread to get going. All the best to you Gil and
Larrymax and Darwin. I'll be all ears(eyes) watching the
progress.
Good luck and many thanks for/future
posts. | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:41 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Larrymax
Progress
Pics - Bulkhead Assembly.
Well I've finally got
started! Hooray! After scanning, printing and spray mounting
my bulkheads to the chipboard, I got busy cutting them out.
The chipboard I'm using (from the backs of pads of paper I got
at WalMart) is working very nicely...nice even consistancy,
easy to cut. I realized, after cutting out the center (keel)
bulkhead supports (2 of them, one for the front half of the
ship, one for the aft) that the chipboard I was using was too
thin. I found some Illustration board (about 1/8" thick) that
is perfect! The slots in the bulkheads that slide down over
the center supports fit perfectly over the illustration board.
Plus, being thicker and stiffer, it will insure (I hope) a
warp-free assembly! It was a bit of a bugger cutting all the
thin slots for the bulkheads to slide onto in the Illustration
board, but, with a lot of patience and even more exacto
blades! I finally managed to get them cut cleanly and
squarely. I've dry fitted the bulkheads for the forward half
of the ship (see pic below) and everything seems to line up
very nicely. A nice detail that might have been easily
overlooked by the designers, if you look at the slots cut in
the bulkheads (see pic below), you'll notice that the slots
for the deck are slightly angled, allowing for the "cambre" of
the deck! (I'm impressed!) It may take a bit of sanding the
edges of the bulkheads once they are all glued in place and
secure, to insure an even and true surface to glue my "planks"
to, but, so far, all looks very nice! Here are a few pics of
the bulkheads for the aft half, as well as one of the
dry-fitted assembly of the fore half! Also, just for grins, a
pic of my cat, Marty! She lays in wait for me to cut things
out, then ATTACKS! Just ONE MORE challenge in building my
"Cleo" : )
 | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:41 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Gil
Hello All,
Haven't been able to touch the Victory. I've been
having what I call a Bill Gates Love-In..., just got the
entire system back to where it was several days ago. Hopefully
it will remain stable for another 6 months before something
mysterious starts happening again.
Larry, the circles
with 2mm, 1mm, 0,5mm with a heavy underline refer to the
backing board thickness of the section. Your bow section looks
impressive. I got out my 1mm board last night but haven't had
time to start the scan process yet.
Check out the
different sizes of cotton crochet thread. It comes in various
sizes which can be combined by a rope making device to create
all necessary rope sizes. It should be dyed either dark
brown/black for the standing rigging or medium brown to light
brown for running rigging (smaller is also lighter in color).
The small linters are controlled by dipping it into a solution
of turpentine and bees wax (yes, turpentine dissolves bees
wax). It is left to dry and then can be used.
Enough
for now.
Best regards, Gil
P.S. Nice cat!
[Edited by Gil on
2003-11-17 12:49 AM]
----- I Got
Carded! | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
Ron Site
Admin

Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
|
Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:42 pm Post
subject: |
|
|
By Larrymax
Yikes!
and I thought I was a purist!!! Thanks for that tutorial on
making ships line, Gil, but frankly, I think I'll just spend
the $5.00 and purchase pre made rigging line at Pegasus
Hobbys! THAT is just TOO MUCH WORK!
Here's another
suggestion....before you start laying up your bulkheads,
UNDERLINE the Roman Numeral Part Numbers! I screwed up on mine
by placing bulkhead XI where bulkhead IX should have
been....noticed it when I was looking down the water
line....all of a sudden a bulkhead was sticking out in the
wrong place! Had to "exacto" it out of there, cut out a new
part, and replace it!! Darn Roman Numerals!!! | |
Back
to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this
forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You
cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot
delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls
in this forum You cannot add events in this forum You
cannot attach files in this forum You cannot
download files in this forum
|
Powered
by phpBB
2.0.6 © 2001, 2002 phpBB
Group
|