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To Build A Ship....the HMS Victory and Cleopatra
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Ron
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Nobi

Hi Larry,

LOL and LOL

I like your Marty, Very Happy maybe he can tell me what a dilicious of Elmer Glue can be Wink

-----
Best Regards
NOBI

"If the model turns into a failure -- immediately tell everyone it's a prototype"

Visit Paper Modeling Group at
http://groups.msn.com/PaperModeling/
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By lauckstreetshipyard

I must say, that Victory model is awesome and to think that it's made of paper. I ordered the kit and will wait now most anxiously for it to arrive. I'm building the Victory Panart wooden kit right now which is my Senior course and I have a Caldercraft Victory wooden kit waiting to be built. This is my 5th Victory model so it looks like I'll reach 7 of them if I live long enough!

Max, the Cleo is sure looking good as well.

Ron, thanks for the welcome.

And I see one of my practicum members here, Jim Krauzlis, hello to Jim.

Take care and happy modeling,

Bob Hunt
The College of Model Shipbuilding
http://www.lauckstreetshipyard.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/Group/ShipModelingCollege
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Maurice

Larry

Your Beakhead goes well and I see includes provision for "the seats of ease"
To this day such facilities in ships are still referred to as the "heads" although technology allows more convient placement.
The catsheads found their name since only the ship's cat had the necessary agility.
You'd better explain all this to Marty, tactfully of course.
Smile

Maurice
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By jimkrauzlis

Hi, Max a/k/a Larry.
She's looking awesome each step of the way! Can't wait to finish some of my projects to get going on my own!
Nice work on the catheads.
Hi, Bob! Glad to see you're aboard! Guys, you just have to see Bob's amazing ship models on his website. Yeah, they're made out of wood, but that's okay, don't hold that against him, they're extraordinary in their own right. Smile
I have to admit I'm a wooden ship modeler myself, been building them for a good thirty years or so, though life style changes have slowed that up a bit.
I am anxiously awaiting to see how this kit tackles the grating construction. Max, have you decided whether to dive into paper block building or to use wooden replacements, since this kit will no doubt use quite a bit of them along the way. I just thought of that as you mentioned the construction of the catheads; if that was made of a lot of layers to create the sheaves, I can only imagine what the block construction will be like.
Jim
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Peter H

Welcome Bob Hunt (the Admiral). On advice I looked over you marvelous website (sort of an understatement).... be great to read your around here.

Thanks Maurice for the clues, I've always wondered actually where they were, Was checking one out and this wicked silver point flashed up past me and my life imediatly past me by. I gather the "Bidet" only works when the ship is facing into strong seas.

Regardless, it gorgeous and very sound work Larry and a thrill to squizz over your notes and piccies.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Good evening gentlemen and ladies.

Got a little more done this evening. Installed a couple of knees under the catheads, then got busy on the first couple of hatch covers.

Heres a head on bow shot just for the fun of it!



The hatch covers are printed a little oddly....not sure why they just didn't print the combings right into the proper place in the frames, but....a little extra work to cut out the openings in the frames and insert the combings...no big deal. What they did NOT include was a color piece to cover the top of the framework...and white paper just would NOT due! So...off to the printer. I have a full sheet of cardstock as well as regular weight paper printed with only the brown color from the model for just this type of situation...where I need to cut out a part that matches, but was not included in the kit. I just traced out the framework, then cut the combing holes out from it, then glued it to the top of the hatch assembly....



...glued the whole thing to one more thickness of chipboard to bring it up to the proper height, added a color strip around the sides, then attached the whole assembly to the deck.



Well just a few more hatches to go now, including the extra (no parts included!) hatch under the canteleverd aft deck!) Then it's on to a bunch of deck furniture....lots of bits and pieces...It's really starting to look shiplike!

P.S. I've only knocked one of the catheads off ONCE so far! Not bad...I ought to break them off only about 5 or 6 more times at this rate before I'm done! Sounds like some epoxy might be in order!

P.P.S. My USS Constitution comes tomorrow!!!!! : )

Larry
Captain, HMS Cleopatra
Paper Navy of the Bear Flag Republic
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By lauckstreetshipyard

Looking good Max. One question, I noticed the grate on that forward hatch was a tan or yellow color and the other grates were a brown color. Was that the way the kit came or did you paint one of them? I think I like the lighter color contrasted against the brown hatch combing myself. Good idea, having copies of the brown colored paper made to add that top hatch combing piece. Thanks for that tip.

Bob Hunt
The College of Model Shipbuilding
http://www.lauckstreetshipyard.com/
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By lauckstreetshipyard

Thanks for the Welcome aboard Peter, and for your comments. I'm thuroughly enjoying this forum and Max's photos of the Cleo. I'm very anxious to see some photos of the Victory kit if someone can post them. This was one of the kits I purchased, along with the Cleo.

Bob Hunt
The College of Model Shipbuilding
http://www.lauckstreetshipyard.com/
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Bob,

Yes, I was wondering about the color difference on that forward hatch, myself. The combings came the color that you see in the photos. I expect the forward hatch combings are wrong and will need to be replaced.....that is unless someone with more knowledge than me (like you, Bob, for instance!) would know if they actually might have used different woods for the different hatches. ??

Max
Captain, HMS Cleopatra
Paper Navy of the Bear Flag Republic
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By lauckstreetshipyard

Hi Max,

Actually, the pictures I have of HMS Victory does show the gratings a lighter wood. The combings are a dark brown and the about the color of maple, light tan. I know for models I build, I always like to do the gratings in a contrasting lighter wood than the hatch combings themselves.

Bob Hunt
The College of Model Shipbuilding
http://www.lauckstreetshipyard.com/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ShipModelingCollege
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

I'm VERY excited this evening for TWO reasons! 1st: The Prodigal Hatch Cover has been found and returned home! Our little "Non-existant" hatch cover that I was just getting ready to scratch build....well in the progress of building the others, I came across a grating in the group that somehow just didn't fit the program....How's this...the covers are numbered 121, 122, 123, 124, 16, 125, 126, 127 and 128. WAIT A MINUTE!!! 16!! Where the heck did that come from! Yes, ladies and gentlemen they numbered the missing hatch cover 16! and then didn't bother to reference it ANYWHERE in the assembly diagrams! Oh well! I'm happy it's home and now I'm going to install it! Smile

And, the 2nd reason I'm happy is that my USS CONSTITUTION came today!!! IT'S BEAUTIFUL!!!! My son, who was home today, wrapped it all up in Christmas paper (ribbon, bow and all) ..broke out one of our little artificial trees, decorated it, and put my Connie under it for when I got home. WHAT A GREAT KID! : )

As promised, I won't start my Constitution until I finish with Cleo......besides, I'm going to build a room in a part of my garage where I can build her and not worry about making a mess or having to pick everything up every night!

Happily Yours
Max
Captain, HMS Cleopatra and USS Constitution
Paper (and wood) Navy of the Bear Flag Republic
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By maurice

Larry

A parent who thinks his kids are great and lets them know they are, will have great kids. Well done. Smile

Back to Jim's photo
http://204.119.244.226/World/Victory/pages/View%20of%20foredeck.htm
It shows 3 seperate gratings set in a single combing or frame, the latter definitely painted dark.
I submit that whatever you like, would be an acceptable representation and none can prove you wrong.

Now if any wish to drive themselves totally insane in the search for unachievable authenticity I may well be able to assist.
None of the guns currently on HMS Victory are thought to come from her Trafalgar outfit. They were all landed at the time of her repair after the battle.
The breeching ring on top of the cascable to retain the breeching rope did not start to be included in the casting of cannons until after 1801. Cannon with ringless cascubles remained in use for many years.
Which style would have been in Victory at Trafalgar, and which in Cleo.
For the difference, see
http://www.stvincent.ac.uk/Heritage/1797/Victory/guns.html
and
http://www.ussconstitution.navy.mil/xlongguns.html

Oh and then there's the quoins. My impression is that whilst American quoins of the period had little handles sticking out the back, the British made do with a small loop of rope passing through a hole drilled vertically at the thick end.

I daren't go on.
Smile Smile Smile

Maurice
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By jimkrauzlis

LOL!
Larry, glad your Constitution arrived. Pretty awesome kit, no?

By the way, do you have any suggestions on how to make the gratings and coamings? On my 1/200 Constitution they are just too small to make individual holes, but on you Cleo I think you have the holes on the grating, right? Before I botch up my next kit on this fitting, are there any clues, tips or tricks you might impart to the lesser skilled of us (i.e., me!) that might help avoid a major disaster?
I'm sure you are familiar with the wooden ship model method; is the same thing done in paper?
Professor, your class is all ears (and thumbs)! Smile
Jim
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Jim,

I'm afraid I'm about to burst a bubble here...and I hope you won't think less of me for it! The answer to the hatch combings is simplicity itself! I cut the printed part out and glue it to the proper thickness of cardstock, add the cover over the top, add the color strip around the edges, then glue it to the ship! I know that's probably NOT the answer you wanted to hear but it's the shocking truth! Many, many card models take advantage of a printers capability to reproduce minute detail, i.e. lug nuts on wheels, cockpit instrumentation on planes and gratings on hatch covers on ships (planking lines and nail heads, too, for that matter)! Now....for those truley psycho enough to give it a shot, I suppose you could print the proper color stock and cut each rung of the grate individually, create a small black box under the grate and lay up all the rungs over the box, but frankly, I don't feel its worth the effort for a detail very few would notice or appreciate! There are Soooooo many more details that are so much more visually appealing (rigging the cannon, detailing the rigging, etc.) that it's not worth the payoff for the time spent! It's like any other model....you have the option to enhance detail to any degree you wish, in the case of cardstock models, a lot of those details are given to you "out of the box". See, were basically a VERY easily distracted lot over here...if something takes too long or is too difficult, we're likley to "put it aside until late", start another model, and never come back to it again!!! (C'mon, the rest of you guys know EXACTLY what I'm talking about!) Here's a close up of one of Cleo's hatches.....Sorry about bursting your bubble!



All that being said, rest assured, Jim and Admiral Bob, my Connie will have EVERY bolt installed in exactly the proper position on her bulwarks, every caronaid (sp?) and cannon properley and completely rigged and every line properly siezed! For this ship, I'm gonna be as psycho-anal about detail as Bob's Practicum will allow me to be! : ) (after I finish Cleo, of course!)

Here's another shot of the port bow with the first of the color panels and a decorative piece added to the assembly (I had to paint the blue area on this piece as it was supplied brown)...See Jim...I DO add some of the details the kit doesn't supply! ) ; )



Appogetically Yours,
Max,
Captain of Taking the Easy Way Out
HMS Clopatra
Paper Navy of the Bear Flag Republic
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By jimkrauzlis

Max, no bubble burst, and in no way could I think less of you...no, wait; that didn't come out right! 8-O
Seriously, I am amazed each time I see how incredible this model is coming out, step by step. I was curious if the kit made you cut out each slat for the gratings, but the printed version looks just great (no pun intended!) and it looked to me to be 3d gratings! Actually, I'm happy you don't need to go through all that extra work to replicate a great looking grating like the ones you built. The time is indeed spent better on other details, and less tedious.
I could be wrong, but I think it is "carronades". Wink
What decorative piece did you have to paint blue from brown? It thought all the frescos were blue background with yellow-gold carvings; did the publishers miss one in the process?
REALLY looking great, Max! I am learning a lot each time you post your progress, thanks!!
Jim
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