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To Build A Ship....the HMS Victory and Cleopatra
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Ron
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Gil

Ron,

Might want to take a look at the HMS Bounty by Maly...,

Best regards, Gil
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Hey Glen. Way Cool. The "Oregon" is a really cool ship! I'm assuming it's the one from Digital Navy. I've spent a lot of time drooling over that very same model. Glad to have you aboard!

Ron......Yea! Do the Bounty! I don't think there is a "easier" sailing ship model to build, per se. Well, I take that back, there are a couple of FREEBIES out there, but I don't think they would be very satisfying. Maybe good way to get your feet wet, but, believe me, you'll get PLENTY wet when you start one of these "Shipyard" kits. The Bounty's always been a favorite subject of mine and, someday, I'll build her, too.

P.S. I got the Port and Starboard Gunwales (under-planking) for the main deck installed last night, along with a little bulkhead/door at the fore end of the main deck. I'll post a pic this afternoon (5ish PDT). I like the fact they give me "double-planking"...should make the ships hull really clean and smooth. Lots of surface area to glue the finished planking pieces.

Well, as promised, here are a couple of shots of the Main Deck Gunwales. Working on building up the Gun Ports now, then, I think the interior wall. Again, this is all just "under" skin. The printed planking and such comes later.







Back to building. Ta, Ta for now!

Larry
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Sticky Fingers

This looks really fantastic. In some corespondence with Gil he mentioned the Minwax Wood Hardener. Tried it and it worked really well. That got me thinking, just what I might have in the basement that could be used as a subsitute. Decided to tryout some polyurethane. No need to brush the parts even. Just dip them and let them soak for a minute or so to get fully soaked, take out and remove the excess from the outside and let dry for three to four hours. Overnight is even better. Test piece was .050" thick Ilustration Board with a 24#/90g/m bond paper glued to the back side with a Super && equivelant. The bond was run through a monochrome laser printer. The dipping process did not affect the laser printing at all. When plunge cutting with a .5" wide X-Acto chisel the cuts where nice and clean and almost felt like cutting spruce.
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Mark, just Plain Mark
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Wow, Mark. Sounds like some pretty sticky work! I'm afraid I've not gone to any such elaborate efforts to stiffen up my paper/chipboard. My bulkhead formers do have some little "pokey" bits sticking up at the tops that I suppose some railings will attach to some time later. They were starting to separate a bit early on from handling the model...I just pushed a little Elmers between the paper layers, gave them a squeeze with some tweezers for a few seconds and that seems to have taken care of the problem. I'd be concerned that, with urethatne coated parts, that cutting out all the VERY small parts would become too difficult! Then again, I haven't tried it so I really don't know. Let us know how it all turns out! By the by, what are you building? A Ship??? : )

Well, here's my next entry. This evening I attached the first Lowere Inboard Gunwale. While dry fitting the piece, I found that the part was too tall and cut right across the bottom 1/3 of the Gun Ports on that side! So, I held the part in place and traced out the gun port openings from the outboard side, then trimmed the part accordingly. Once glued in place, the Gun Ports are all trimmed out nicely. No harm, no foul....well, maybe a little foul!



Now, "Back to the building!"

Larry
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Wunwinglow

This thread just gets better and better! One little question, what scale are these models? I'm guessing about 1:75? Just to get a handle on the size of these hulls.

Tim

PS I received a great set of drawings for a Royal Navy Type 23 frigate yesterday... Now I'm getting interested in ships again!!!
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Lots of Projects, but don't hold your breath....
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Gil

Tim,

The scale is 1:96. The Victory's hull alone is around 25 inches.

Best regards, Gil

PS I hardened the edges of all the bulkheads. Wood hardener works well as does urethane, shellac and super glue.
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Tim, Thanks for the nice words! The hull assembly of the Cleopatra is 15" and she, too, is 1/96th scale. Congrats on the plans for your ship. Now GET BUSY, and GET BUILDING!
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Sticky Fingers

Larry, right now I'm working on one of Dr. Zarkov's 1/32 aircraft (IAI 201 Avara). This build is mainly a skill developer. The main reason I was tempted to try the polyurethane was I was having problems with the trailing edge of the wing ribs and the joints of the wing spars. Plus provlems with things like the empanage and wing struts too. I haven't tried the process on Ink Jet printed stock yet though. I'm still having printer problems. Someday I mean to tackle one of these. But I think that I'll definetly go mixed media. Turn the masts and spars from hardwood along with some of the other parts.

PS. Keep up the good work!
-----
Mark, just Plain Mark
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Mark,
Yes, I'm probably going to end up turning my masts and spars from dowel, too. I think I'll give it the old "college try" with paper, first, though.....just because I'm something of a masochist! Let us know how the Poly works out on your plane's edges. Is it sandable? paintable? Does it discolor the parts?
Well on to today's installment. I was able to get in about 4 good hours of building time last night (Friday). Got some pictures this morning to share.
In finishing off the Main Deck Gunwales, I was concerned about the hollow space left between the inboard gunwale and the outboard gunwale, above the gunports. It just seemed to be kind of flimsey, plus, later on I need to add a railing to the top, and it didn't give me much material to glue a railing to, so, I decided to make some space fillers to stiffen things up a bit. I made a template of the shape I needed and cut out 2, 1mm, paterns from my chipboard collection and glued them together. The completed "filler" pieces slotted in perfectly! Now my gunwales are "stiff as a board!" HA! Pun intended! : ) Here's a little sketch of what I added:



Here's a pic looking down onto the top edge of one of the gunwales. They really are very solid now and will stand up to all the handling that's going to be required during the rest of the build



Once the Main Deck Gunwales were completed, it was time to add the Fore Deck. Nothing too unusual about this piece. Nice and BIG, which is kind of a relief after working with "fiddly-bits" for a while! Only one bit of fudging required for this deck. At the aft end of it, the part over hung the sides of the hull by about 1/16th of an inch and needed to be trimmed down a bit to match up nice and flush. I'm discovering just how VERY IMPORTANT it is to be sure all the Bulkheads and Longitudinal Formers match up PERFECTLY in the initial stages...any discrepancies DO show up later when you need to add other parts on top of them. I've tried to be VERY careful all along the way, so I'm not sure if it's me, or the kit, but, odds are, it's ME

In closing, today, here's a shot of a giant, furry, sea monster, sniffing about for some sailors to eat! : ) (actually, It's Marty, my cat!) Keep on building you guys....Sure like to hear from you Darwin!!!! How's that Constitution coming!!!!
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Well, Good Monday Morning everybody!

Over the weekend I managed to get a little more done on Cleo. The next part in the assembly sequence was supposed to be #30, the aft deck. On dry fitting the piece I noticed something a little "off"....seems the aft end of the part was hanging over the end of the ship by a good TWO INCHES! After a couple of explatives to myself, thinking I had left off a former or something (.....I was wondering why I had a few "extra" parts!)..(just kidding!!) I finally figured out that I hadn't accounted for the Fan Tail assembly structure! The aft deck extends to the end of the fan tail! Of course if I read Polish, I might have know to assemble that bit before trying to add the deck, but, being the bright guy that I am...I (finally)figured that out all by my self! Once I got the Fan Tail assembled and installed, I dry fit the deck again, and, what-do-you-know!..the deck extends right to where it will meet the end of the fan tail!



So, after going through all that, I have decided to NOT attach the aft deck just yet...the deck, when installed, substantially hangs out over the aft end of the main deck and there are a few bits of "furniture" (deck fittings, hatch covers, etc.) that would be pretty hard to reach with the aft deck in place...so, I'll wait a bit and get that stuff put on first, then attach the deck. In the mean time, I've begun "skinning" Cleo. The skin segments are pretty close to a perfect fit for each segment of the hull they cover. I started cutting them a little "large" to insure I had enough material, but have now taken to cutting pretty close to the actual cut lines of the parts, and they fit just fine! A great testament to the time and care the designers put into this model. As long as you have the bulkheads and longitudinal formers carefully and correctly assembled, the skins fit like a glove!



Well, that's it for today. Sure would like to see some posts from you Darwin. Hope your "on the mend" Gil...looking forward to hearing from both of you soon! How's the Oregon coming, Mark?
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By cardfan

I think you were looking for me about the Oregon, I had gotten as far as the beginnings of the deck shelter when I was struck with the same flu bug as the aformentioned children. I spent the last 3 days in bed and I'm just now becomming functional again. I will post another photo or two soon!

Glen
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Gil

Hello All,

Right arm is out of comission for a month. Finally had the shoulder fixed and it was more than several small incisions...,

Experiments with rolling paper for masts and spars has commenced with some success..., was even able to roll a cannon which looks real. Spars look like they'll be a piece of cake. Masts will need a little more work. I'll take some photos tomorrow and post them for all to critique and try it out for themselves. It works out that the technique maybe useful for other purposes such as axles, cannons and other lathed type cylinders. It's already used by many for aircraft axles to show oleos..., why not the same technique for banded masts?

Update Photo:



The spars are both two equal length triangles rolled on a 3 mm shaft. The cannon is a right triangle rolled on a the same shaft. All were coated with tacky glue. The sail is made from pellon. It was formed after being wetted with Minwax wood hardener and let dry before trimming. Application of seams and rope edges remain...,

Best regards, Gil
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Peter H

Ouch!!! Hope the shoulder sorts itself out Gil.

Many thanks to you and Larry for taking the time to do the photography. It's a truly fascinating thread.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By rickstef

not only a fascinating thread, how about the most read, and most replied to thread too?

Great going guys

Rick


-----
"Rock is Dead, Long Live Paper and Scissors"
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Hey gang.

Welcome back Gil! Hope the shoulder is feeling better....if not right now, I'm sure you will be better than new after the healing completes! Welcome back. Thanks for the pics of your spars and cannon form...and the tips on rolling them from different triangles! That's a little stroke of genius! I'm going to give it a try! I love the sail! I'm going to be mounting my sails furled, but that material looks like just the ticket. What is "pellon" and where do you get it? I've never heard of it before.

Captain's Log, Wednesday Dec 17, 2003

Nothing too exciting to report on the actual assembly front...more skins....she's beginning to look like a mummy...a little strip of paper here, a little strip of paper there. The real joy of getting the skins on is actually feeling and seeing the shape of the hull! Not to get too weird about it (oh man, I KNOW I'm going to regret this!) but It's really cool to feel the shape of the hull and feel the curves and flow of her lines! Go ahead! Take your shots!...but it's all part of enjoying the process of watching my ship come together! If YOU were building a ship, instead of just living vicariously through Gill and Glen and I, YOU'LD do the same thing!!



Well, just like the love of a woman, along with the joy, comes pain! (deeper, and deeper...I just keep digging myself deeper and deeper!) I'm to a point, now, where I'm ready to skin the hull over the aft gun ports...which requires me to attach the the aft deck, as the skin needs to attach to it....but I can't attach the aft deck until I install the cannons that are tucked under the cantelevered portion that's over the main deck. I'll never be able to reach them once the deck is installed....also, there's a hatch cover tucked way under there that needs to be built and installed....problem is, it's not shown, nor numbered, on the assembly diagram anywhere and there are no parts to build it! SHEESH! I've searched all the parts pages and accounted for all the hatches and the one I need just isn't there! There's a hole in the deck for it, just NO PAERTS! Not a real big problem...Photoshop to the rescue! I'm just going to scan one of the other hatches, correct it to fit, and there you go! This is the first real "error" I've come across in the kit, so I forgive them Smile



I was also doggedly searching for a panel that would cover the bulkhead (former) at the very aft end of the main deck. Guess what...not there, either! So, I figured, what the heck, It's way under the deck, and once all the fittings and boats are added to the deck, no one will see it, so I just took my brown marker and colored it up, drew a few panel lines and little doors and figured "OK, that should do it". Then I had a DUH moment! The reason there is no panel to cover the part is because on the ship, there wouldn't have been a bulkhead there! It's just the Gun Deck and it would have continued to the aft of the ship, at least up to the Captains quarters, and then maybe even past there! If you saw the movie "Master and Commander" (Which I HIGHLY recommend, by the way, an AWESOME movie!) you see them actually removing and stowing the walls (as well as all the furnishings) to the Captains quarters during battle and running out guns throught the ports in his cabin! Pretty cool! So, now, I'm just going to paint the bulkhead flat black and let it dissappear under there. So, next step....I need to build 3 more cannons and install them so I can put the deck on, so I can finish skinning my Cleo! Hopefully, I can build the cannons a little quicker than 6 hours each this time!

Until my next Watch...
Larry
Captain, H.M.S. Cleopatra
Paper Navy of the Bear Flag Republic
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