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Ron Site
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:44 pm Post
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By 57townsman
Hi
Larry,
I must say, you guys are doing an inspiring job
on those ships! I am strangely compelled to check in every day
and see what's new Regarding the nonexistant bulkhead, if you felt
sufficiently inspired, you could do a little forced
perspective painting which would give the illusion of the gun
deck continuing to the end of the ship. Or, if you could find
a picture or painting to scan, scale, and print, it would be
even easier.
Steve | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:45 pm Post
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By Larrymax
Ooooooooooo!!!!! I LIKE it!!!!! : ) | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:45 pm Post
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By Gil
Hello All,
Pellon is a trade name for a synthetic fabric made out
of rayon. Rayon is cellulose that has been treated with NaOH
and then spun or sheeted into an acidic bath. When spun it's
called rayon, when sheeted it's called cellophane so it's
directly related to paper.
It is available in many
different weights and can be found at any sewing and fabric
shop. It is widely used as an iron on backing to stiffen
collars etc. It has a direction which it can be deformed and
another direction which it cannot (anisotropic). I soaked the
one in the photo with Minwax wood hardener (it works on rayon
too) and formed the "puffs" followed by letting it dry. I
trimmed it to look like sprit sail just for show.
A
method for making it look like sailcloth with attendant coffee
staining, seam lines, reef lines and clew rope to name a few
remains...., maybe the HMS Victory in drydock ain't such a bad
idea after all.
Best regards, Gil First Sea Lord
of Drydocks, Dockyards, Yardbirds and Project Cost Overruns of
The Paper Navy of The Bear Flag Republic ----- I Got
Carded!
Hello All,
Larry, I too, have
found some oversights on the HMS Victory model design. It
seems that bulkhead IV doesn't allow for the foremast
fondation. I've been dry fitting all parts to make sure
nothing is overlooked..., some of the longitudinal decking
panels needed to have the center sanded in order to have the
external joints match exactly. Badly fit parts at this stage
don't really stand out until you start the hull planking
process at which time it becomes a nightmare to fix if not
detected early on. Wonder if Shipyard is tuned to this thread?
Best regards, Gil
P.S. Funny, but I also
thought about a perspective painting! Found out that by adding
a curve to the triangle allows rolling a neat little cascabel
for the cannon!
[Edited by Gil on
2003-12-17 7:48 PM]
----- I Got
Carded! | |
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Ron Site
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:46 pm Post
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By Maurice
Everyone
knows about HMS Victory, some may even have heard of the USS
Constitution (smile please) and if you've been to Digital Navy
at least you know BB3 existed. What of HMS Cleopatra?
The first of 8 ships to bear the name in the Royal Navy.
Built 1779 a 5th Rate Ship of 32 guns of the Thetis/Amazon
class of frigates. Length of gun deck 126' Length of
keel 104' Breadth 35' Depth of hold 12' 2"
Displacement 677 tons Armed with Upper deck 26 X
12 pounders Quarterdeck 4 X 6 pounders Forecastle 2 X
6 pounders also carried 12 swivel guns Complement 300
Earnt battle honours at Dogger Bank 1781, when the
escort of a British convoy engaged the escort of a Dutch
convoy, an indecisive action although one Dutch warship sank
the next day. On 17 February 1805, met and engaged the
44-gun French frigate Ville de Main which was homeward bound
with despatches and therefore prefering to avoid action.
However, in attempting to cross the enemy's bow to rake her
(fire lengthwise along her decks) Cleopatra's wheel was shot
away and she became unmanoeuverable. The Ville de Main closed
to board and, after a furious action, in which the Cleopatra
lost a third of her crew, she struck her colours. Both ships
were heavily damaged and a week later were unable to offer
resistance to capture when HMS Leander, 52 guns, came across
them. The last Royal Navy ship to be taken in a single
ship engagement until the war of 1812. Broken up 1814.
Only slightly older and slightly smaller, HMS Rose,
built 1757, was a Sixth Rate Ship (9 pounders rather than 12
pounders) It was a replica of her that starred as HMS
Surprise, which makes it worth visiting http://www.tallshiprose.org/ and http://shakti.trincoll.edu/~jconstan/hmsrose/home.html
and links, especially as the latter site has some good
rigging plans.
Maurice | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:47 pm Post
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By Larrymax
Hey
Maurice! Thanks for the history of my Cleo! Who Knew! To
think, I just bought her because I liked the way she
looked!.....Really, thanks. Info on her is hard to come
by...believe me, I tried!
Captains Log, Friday,
December 19, 2003
Well, I have WONDERFUL news! I've
completed 2 more cannons this evening! Total build
time.....drum roll please.....4 HOURS! See, I knew I'd get
faster! So, 3 down, 12 complete cannons to go, then, of course
there are some carronades on the upper decks, and a few
Falconets on the rails. I'm not going to count the barrels
poking out of my little shadow boxes....after all!, they
aren't hardly cannons at all!
Sure would like
to hear from you guys! Gil may be out of commission for a
little bit, but what's YOUR excuse Darwin!....... and Ron!!!!
C'mon guys....don't leave me sailing out here all by
myself!!!!
Sincerely, Larry Captain, HMS
Cleopatra Paper Navy of the Bear Flag Republic | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:48 pm Post
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By Gil
Hello All,
Be another three weeks before the sling gets lost...,
Carrying on with the Mast & Spar Experiments as an
aside and also maybe able to produce cannon at around 10X
Larrys current rate (have to do the carriages as well so the
rate may come down some, the Cleopatra is a 32 gun ship wheras
the Victory is 104 guns).
Spar Experiment results
photo number 2:
Total span is 12.5 inches and is about 0.375
inches in diameter. Spiral rolled cylinders from 20# Xerox
copy paper. Coated with urethane, allowed to dry before
assembling by inserting each yard into a center rolled tapered
splicing "drum". Center is covered with same weight paper and
painted with flat black acrylic. I've decided that there is an
easier way than this and will report back soon as those
results look good.
Best regards, Gil
The Spar
& Mast Experiments continue...,
First a little
aside in the armaments department. It's not really anything in
particular other than a test vehicle to check out production
mehtods and media. Looks real enough to use as standard
process for cannon development.
The next
picture shows the results of rolling one Xerox 24# copy page
with rolled plugs in either end. Simple and easy process. Next
step is to cover the resulting helical edges. Rock Hard Water
Putty is a leading candidate at this point.
 | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:57 pm Post
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By Larrymax
Just a
short Update on Cleo's progress. I've given a shot at creating
a little "mural" on that bulkhead. Came out OK...not perfect,
but a little more interesting that just a black wall...might
tweak it a little more before I'm done.
I have all 4
cannons completed that go under the aft deck overhang, now I
am deciding how much Tackle to install on them...do I go all
out? (see the pic of my cannon diorama back on page 2 of this
thread).... or just "Minimal", maybe just the heavy recoil
rope? ....haven't decided yet. Either way, I have to do it
before I glue down the deck. All this, and the Holiday's upon
us, not much time to play with my Cleo, but I'll keep you all
posted.
More to come! Merry Christmas!
Captain Larry | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:57 pm Post
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By Wunwinglow
Just a
thought.... Could you have used a mirror? Your mural works
very well though! It will look excellent through the decks
when it is all together!
Seasons Greetings to you and
all,
Tim ----- Lots of Projects, but don't
hold your breath.... | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:58 pm Post
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By cardfan
Or for
that matter some Mylar or some shiny silver Christmas ribbon?
There is this package in the living room...
Glen | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:58 pm Post
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By Larrymax
Tim and
Glen,
A MIRROR! Oh, Please! I have a hard enough time
cutting out PAPER....never mind GLASS! Sheesh! And the mylar
thing....much more reasonable....but I'm not sure if that
wouldn't be too much reflection....I don't want it to look
like there's another ship going out the back end...just a few
cannon going off in the distance. Remember, too, 1) this is
all going to be covered by a deck which hangs 2 inches past
this wall 2) There are little life boats in front of it
blocking the view, and 3) Nobody's even going to look under
there, anyway! Kind of makes me wonder "what the HECK am I
doing!!!!"
Larry Captain and Master of the Inane
Paper Navey of the Bear Flag Republic | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:59 pm Post
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By cardfan
Larry,
In proper paper modeling fashion you are obsessing...
That is what we do best isn't it? ;^)
Glen | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:59 pm Post
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By Maurice
Larry
Whatever you do, calm down, take another tablet if you
have to, but calm down.
The vertical non
existent bit should be a partition similar to that at the rear
of the forecastle deck. It led to the captain's and officers'
accommodation under the Quarterdeck. Internally the
accommodation was of dismountable partitions to clear the gun
deck for action. What I don't know is whether the visble
partition was dismountable. I suspect it may not have been, or
at least not fully, since it played a part in the
weatherliness of the ship. The horizontal non existent bit
is a companionway leading down from the Upper Deck (or Gun
Deck) to the Main Deck, which on the Fifth Raters was the
seamens accommodation, fairly generous in frigates with no
guns to get in the way. It also provided a source of
ventilation (and I imagine much water) I'd suggest covering it
with another part 125b as it's so out of sight.
Happy
Christmas all Maurice
(BTW the Rose replica is not
a good reference for deck layouts, far too many modern
adaptations.) (BTBTW The bit what's at the back is the
Stern Gallery and has now't to do with fanatics with tails.
) | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 9:00 pm Post
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By Peter H
Work to
your own expectations and enjoy yourself Larry. I plead guilty
at being really curious at some amazing work by you and Gil
*but thats all* | |
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Ron Site
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 9:00 pm Post
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By Ron
Well
guys...you did it and it's all your fault I ordered the Fly Model
Kruzensztern from Hobbyfactory today. I realize this is
way over my head and well beyond anything I should
attempt....but it *is* your fault! I'll join in on the fun
as soon as it arrives. Larry, Gil and everyone, thanks for
the inspiration!
All my best for the holidays:)
Ron | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 9:01 pm Post
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By Gil
Ahoy Ron,
The act is done! No recovering from it, it's terminal
and will consume you through to the end.
Nice work
Larry, he'll bring a tidy sum..., this press gang business is
beginning to look like it will prosperous.
Best
regards, Gil
[Edited by Gil on
2003-12-25 7:37 PM]
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