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Ron Site
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:45 pm Post
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By Gil
Larry,
Shipyard has a definite number system but Roman
Numerals must be carefully observed. Dry assembly and close
examination before commiting to gluing in place is always a
good idea. The old addage "measure twice and cut once, then
rip it out cause it still ain't right" is one that I've
modified to fit the normal situation in model building.
Another is "glue and sleep on it, the mistake will be
glaringly obvious in the morning".
Buying line is
alright but the improper use of scale in the rigging is
generally the biggerst tip off to an amateur job (this is a
good place to be a purist as it is in the eye of the beholder
and gives either the right or wrong cues when it comes to
scale).
Enough for now, have to start scanning some
stuff.
Best regards, Gil
[Edited by Gil on
2003-11-19 12:23 AM]
----- I Got Carded!
Hello All,
The book "Anatomy Of The Ship; The
100-Gun Ship Victory, Revised Edition" by John McKay arrived
today. I cannot say enough good things about it. It details
the ship as it was during the Trafalgar period. The line
drawings alone are what each and every model designer or
builder would ever want. In fact John McKay is a model ship
builder and the original stimulus to do this book was the lack
of detail information on the subject! I don't think that you
need to go any further for a reference if it's your intention
to build a model of this World famous vessel.
The cost
for the book on Amazon was $30.07 U.S. total (they offer free
(but slower delivery time) shipping for any book over $25.00).
Larry, one interesting thing I've picked up from the
book is that the shipbuilders built the frames slightly
oversized...., they would then trim them to "fair" out the
hull before planking began.
Enough for now, got to get
back to scanning.
Best regards, Gil
[Edited by Gil on
2003-11-19 12:03 AM]
----- I Got Carded!
Hello All,
Finally scanned all of the eggcrate
sections for the Victory. Took about 8 full hours of work to
complete. Printing and trimming of sections is still
continuing. Expect to start cutting tomorrow.
Larry,
any more progress?
Best regards, Gil ----- I
Got Carded! | |
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Ron Site
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:48 pm Post
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By Larrymax
Well, now
that you mention it, Gill!. Here are some progress pics. I've
finished the main bulkheads and formers for the hull and
assembled the fore sub-assembly to the aft sub-assembly. I
didn't care for the way the center boards and the formers just
"butt joined", so, to add some strength, I've added some
"re-enforcing" strips to the center join locations of both the
verticle center board and horizontal formers. I've also made a
couple of little "stands" to hold my eggcrate up while I'm
working on it. I'll get something a little more substantial
shortly, but for now, they do nicely. Next comes lots of
"Little Bits" and more Formers to complete the Eggcrate.
Everything fits VERY NICELY. Nice tight joins and nice
straight hull lines!

I've
finished with all the bulkheads now. Just beginning to insert
the vertical gunport sides. Found one error I made while
attaching the long, thin stringers (the little bits with the
brown dashes on them.....I put the "colored" side on the top
surface of the top rail! It should have been on the bottom! I
figured out, AFTER I inserted the first gunport sides that the
colored part on the top rail is supposed to be the top surface
of the gunport! Oops! I thought they were the bottom surface
of gunports on the main deck! Oh well, no harm, really, I just
carefully trimmed the colored piece off the top surface and
glued it underneath to complete the gun port. Now I just have
to do it for Ohhhhh, about 20 more gunports!!!! I really have
to remember to take more time to understand each part before I
commit it to glue! Without any instructions to lead the way,
silly little errors like this could become a real issue later
on!......Just a word to the wise, eh...!
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:49 pm Post
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By Gil
Larry,
Yeowwh! Gunports already! Looking like a regular
ship-o-the-line.
Just finished printing out the
scanned eggcrate. Took longer than expected as usual, cleaning
up the scans and making them fit on 8.5 x 11 took most of the
time. Now to paste and cut.
One thought comes up, are
you going to show the ship with gunports open or closed or
somewhere in between. The reason is that the interior of open
gunports needs to be painted a dark color so the interior
doesn't show through as card stock. Also the cannons must be
positioned in place making the hull a lot more delicate to
handle whilst planking is added. Any thoughts.
Best
regards, Gil ----- I Got Carded! | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:50 pm Post
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By Larrymax
Gil,
Great question! Again, something I hadn't thought
about yet, that would have been a "Doh!" somewhere down the
line! I want to have all my gun ports in the open position.
How about this plan.....I build a little shadow box behind the
gun port. Paint the interior all black, then, after I'm done
with the planking, I can attach a "dummy" cannon to the back
of the shadow box! That way, I don't have to worry about
mucking things up!
 | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:51 pm Post
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By Gil
Larry,
Good idea..., are you considering building a mock-up
to see how it looks. It's the only way to insure that it will
work right.
This has me thinking on the use of the
gunport onboard ship. This will have to be researched as I
don't believe that the gunports were all open at the same
time, as not all the guns were fired in a broadside
(overstress the ships sttructure). At other times they were
kept closed due to ships water tight integrity issues. Anyone
have any firm information of this?
Best regards, Gil
----- I Got Carded! | |
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Ron Site
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:52 pm Post
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By rkelterer
hi guys,
very nice idea to build nearly online - only one thing
i'm concerned - please think about putting the pictures into
an album. even on a fast internet connection the download of
all pictures on their full resolution is a heavy load - not to
mention a 56k modem .......
keep on building
raimund | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:53 pm Post
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By wunwinglow
Cool
thread!!! Can't wait for the next exciting episode!
Tim
PS Has the print-out got the brass plaque
screwed to the deck saying 'Nelson Fell Here'? When I was a
little lad and being shown around the real HMS Victory, I
embarrassed myself by standing on it just as our sailor guide
pointed it out to everyone.....
PPS Pics could go in
the albums, with a link. Then 56k-ers can pick which pics they
want, when they want. ----- Lots of Projects, but
don't hold your breath.... | |
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Ron Site
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:55 pm Post
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By Maurice
Fleet
actions were rarely entered into in anything but ideal
conditions, otherwise they couldn't hit anything. Entering
action all guns, both sides of the ship, would be loaded the
ports opened and the guns run out. If turning to run
parallel to the opponent or crossing his path, each gun on the
engaged side would be fired only as it bore onto the target
thus sequencing the firing. When already on a parallel
course the guns would be fired one after the other in a rapid
ripple along all gun decks In either case the recoil from
the broadside was spread out. Ripple firing would of
course also be used when there were targets on both sides.
In individual ship actions in poorer conditions good
seamanship was needed to stay on an even keel and keep all the
ports open. Otherwise when at sea ports would normally be
closed but could be seen opened in harbour for ventilation,
the guns remaining stowed.
Maurice | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:57 pm Post
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By Larrymax
Thanks
for the insight Maurice. I'm still debating about how many and
which ports to leave open or closed. Well, I've made my first
little Gun Port Shadow Box, this morning. Here are a couple of
pics (VERY OPTIMIZED, VERY SMALL, FILES!! ....@ 4k
each!)(sorry, but I really think it's better to have the pics
right here to go along with the comments...I hate bouncing
around from page to page to see pics, then back to read again.
Besides, the Photo Alubums would take just as long, maybe
longer to load, as these pics...I'm sorry if it causes
problems for some of you...I do my best to make the images
VERY SMALL, file size wise). One pic of the assembled box, one
showing it dry fitted. To secure it well, I've given the top
and bottom a little extra "lip" to attach to the rails. Also,
I've made the box slightly larger than the gun port opening to
give an illusion of depth. Next, I'll make a "mock cannon" to
see how the total effect looks. I'm sure, by the time the
port's cover is installed, it'll look just fine, considering
the whole port is only about 3/8" square!
P.S.
Hey Darwin! Where are you, man? Have you broken out that
Constitution, yet? We're waiting!!![/img] | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 7:58 pm Post
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By Gil
Larry,
Nice work! Now put the cannon in...., I have one of
those feelings that the cannon, as provided in the kit, won't
live up to the minimum level of realism required and will need
to be modified.
I am still going through exacto
blades, well not exactly, I found that buffing the old exacto
blade with a dremel buff wheel spun in "lustre cream"
polishing compound puts an incredibly sharp edge on the blade
and also has the added benefit of polishing it to a mirror
finish. It literaly flows through the illustration board now
and I still haven't changed the blade. The Cleopatra has a big
advantage on the Victory namely fewer decks and less guns.
It's going to take three 22 x 30 inch illutrator boards just
to finish the eggcrate alone!
Best regards, Gil
PS I agree about the picture being included along with
the update posting. I'll start using it as soon as I figure
out how to use my webpage as an interim posting site.
----- I Got Carded! | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:01 pm Post
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By Cap'n Birdseye
Great tip about polishing blades! Thanks Gil, works a
treat!
Tim ----- Even at work I can't keep
away! | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:02 pm Post
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By Gil
Hello All,
Slogging through the cutting out operation on the
eggcrate still....,
Happy to report that my
productivity has risen by around 300% after instigating
changes in the cutting tool use. In other words I found an
easier, and as it works out, much more accurate way to cut out
slots (in 1 mm illustrator board). I borrowed a little from
Jim Nunn and quickly turned a #11 xacto blade into a 1 mm
chisel for cutting the slot ends. The real expediting tool is
Friskars microtouch scissors. They are capable of cutting
slots up the length of the blade (about 2 inches) and make a
very clean end cut at the slot end. Works like magic. So
expect pictures of the HMS Victory eggcrate shortly.
Best regards, Gil
[Edited by Gil on
2003-11-28 4:52 PM]
----- I Got
Carded! | |
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Ron Site
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:03 pm Post
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By Darwin
Things have
been a bit crazed lately...life keeps getting in the way of
the important stuff. If no one else falls off the family tree,
I may at least get dug down to the Constitution and get off to
a late start. I keep looking at the foamboard in the corner
and thinking that would be just the thing for the eggcrate,
although will further slow things down by thinking through the
best way of compensating for the increased thickness of the
building medium. When completed, it should make a pretty
stable foundation for the build. ----- Live long and
prosper. | |
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Ron Site
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004 Posts: 191
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:06 pm Post
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By Larrymax
Well,
Darwin! Nice to see you back on board! I'm sorry for your
loss. My sincere condolences! Personally, I think you're going
overboard (pun intended) with the use of foam core (if,
indeed, that's what you mean by "foam board") for your
eggcrate. Just a bit of overkill, not to mention, like you
already have, the inherent difficulties in cutting the stuff
to allow for the proper hull shape and thickness. I've worked
with the stuff before, it's kind of a bugger. I'd stick to
illustration board. Gil, YOU ARE A GENIUS! I actually own a
pair of the very same Fiskar's, but never thought about using
them to try cutting my illustration board! Oh well, yet
ANOTHER lesson learned just a tad too late! If I might ask,
how did you create a "Chissel" for the end of the slots out of
an exacto blade?
Here are a few pics of my first "test
build" (thanks, again, Gil!) of one of my cannons. I've added
a bit of detail to the kit supplied pattern, including the
"rings" around the cannon barrel, the flaired end of the
barrel, and added the little block that they use to raise and
lower the angle of the cannon barrel (I don't know the real
name of it, though I'm sure someone out there will let me
know!), the pivots for the barrel to rest on the carriage and
the straps over the top of the pivots. I'm not too happy with
the barrel yet, I'd like to see it a little more narrow at the
business end, but, the good news is, I have about 20 or so
more to make to try to get it JUST RIGHT!!!! TOTAL BUILD TIME
FOR 1 CANNON: 6 HOURS! Gil, I do NOT envy you and all the
cannons on the Victory! Good luck, brother!
P.S. Did you guys
see the nice model of the Vasa posted in the gallery! Good
job, whoever you are....how about jumping into our forum,
here, with some tips!, eh! | |
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Ron Site
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Posted: Sat Jan
24, 2004 8:06 pm Post
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By Gil
Larry,
Nice cannon..., it's big enough to put a hole in a
penny. Yeah, that's kind of why I asked, 6 x 104 = 624 hours!
That's a lot of time, like around 78, 8 hour days so either
the build time is reduced to something like 20 minutes or less
each or I'm going for take out. I think some more work needs
to be done in this area nonetheless. One redeeming item is
that only the deck guns need full detail (like the tackle that
also accompanies each). The rest just need to look like the
real thing when they are stuck out the gun ports. An
interesting fact is that merchantmen would paint dummy gun
ports on there vessels in an attempt to make it look more
heavily armed than it was to pirates and privateers.
The chisel edge blade was made from a rusty old #11 I
had laying around. I simply used a Dremel cutoff wheel to cut
off the tip about a 6 mm up and then ground the chisel width
to 1 mm and a approximately 4 mm long. The edge was then
ground and sharpened via the Dremel buff wheel with buffing
compound method. Works in a cheap Xacto handle and saves a
chisel type blade. Nunn made his out of several Xacto chisel
blades. I guess I'll make a set eventually but found this
fast, cheap, and expedient and besides it works just great
(didn't bother to knock the rust off but that's an aesthetic
thing).
For the record the idea of using the Friskars
microtouch micro shears for slot work didn't occur to me until
after the 7th bulkhead and my right forefinger started losing
all feeling from cutting illustrator board. I think I was
doing what I do best, absolutely nothing, when the idea came
to me to use the friskars for the length and the ground chisel
edge for the end cut. A few minutes in the morning and voila!
An accelerated and more accurate bulkhead production method.
They still have to be cut out of the illustrator board but
that's relatively minor compared to the number of slots
required. I've got a strange feeling that a lot of
cardmodelers are going out and buy a pair over the next
several days. At least any that've had to make any sort of
eggcrate for model assembly.
Enough for now.
Best regards, Gil ----- I Got
Carded! | |
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