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To Build A Ship....the HMS Victory and Cleopatra
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Ron
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Joined: 13 Jan 2004
Posts: 191

PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By 57townsman

Hi Larry,

I must say, you guys are doing an inspiring job on those ships! I am strangely compelled to check in every day and see what's new Smile Regarding the nonexistant bulkhead, if you felt sufficiently inspired, you could do a little forced perspective painting which would give the illusion of the gun deck continuing to the end of the ship. Or, if you could find a picture or painting to scan, scale, and print, it would be even easier.

Steve
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Ooooooooooo!!!!! I LIKE it!!!!! : )
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Gil

Hello All,

Pellon is a trade name for a synthetic fabric made out of rayon. Rayon is cellulose that has been treated with NaOH and then spun or sheeted into an acidic bath. When spun it's called rayon, when sheeted it's called cellophane so it's directly related to paper.

It is available in many different weights and can be found at any sewing and fabric shop. It is widely used as an iron on backing to stiffen collars etc. It has a direction which it can be deformed and another direction which it cannot (anisotropic). I soaked the one in the photo with Minwax wood hardener (it works on rayon too) and formed the "puffs" followed by letting it dry. I trimmed it to look like sprit sail just for show.

A method for making it look like sailcloth with attendant coffee staining, seam lines, reef lines and clew rope to name a few remains...., maybe the HMS Victory in drydock ain't such a bad idea after all.

Best regards, Gil
First Sea Lord of Drydocks, Dockyards, Yardbirds and Project Cost Overruns of The Paper Navy of The Bear Flag Republic
-----
I Got Carded!


Hello All,

Larry, I too, have found some oversights on the HMS Victory model design. It seems that bulkhead IV doesn't allow for the foremast fondation. I've been dry fitting all parts to make sure nothing is overlooked..., some of the longitudinal decking panels needed to have the center sanded in order to have the external joints match exactly. Badly fit parts at this stage don't really stand out until you start the hull planking process at which time it becomes a nightmare to fix if not detected early on. Wonder if Shipyard is tuned to this thread?

Best regards, Gil

P.S. Funny, but I also thought about a perspective painting! Found out that by adding a curve to the triangle allows rolling a neat little cascabel for the cannon!

[Edited by Gil on 2003-12-17 7:48 PM]

-----
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Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Maurice

Everyone knows about HMS Victory, some may even have heard of the USS Constitution (smile please) and if you've been to Digital Navy at least you know BB3 existed.
What of HMS Cleopatra?
The first of 8 ships to bear the name in the Royal Navy.
Built 1779 a 5th Rate Ship of 32 guns of the Thetis/Amazon class of frigates.
Length of gun deck 126'
Length of keel 104'
Breadth 35'
Depth of hold 12' 2"
Displacement 677 tons
Armed with
Upper deck 26 X 12 pounders
Quarterdeck 4 X 6 pounders
Forecastle 2 X 6 pounders
also carried 12 swivel guns
Complement 300

Earnt battle honours at Dogger Bank 1781, when the escort of a British convoy engaged the escort of a Dutch convoy, an indecisive action although one Dutch warship sank the next day.
On 17 February 1805, met and engaged the 44-gun French frigate Ville de Main which was homeward bound with despatches and therefore prefering to avoid action. However, in attempting to cross the enemy's bow to rake her (fire lengthwise along her decks) Cleopatra's wheel was shot away and she became unmanoeuverable. The Ville de Main closed to board and, after a furious action, in which the Cleopatra lost a third of her crew, she struck her colours. Both ships were heavily damaged and a week later were unable to offer resistance to capture when HMS Leander, 52 guns, came across them.
The last Royal Navy ship to be taken in a single ship engagement until the war of 1812.
Broken up 1814.

Only slightly older and slightly smaller, HMS Rose, built 1757, was a Sixth Rate Ship (9 pounders rather than 12 pounders)
It was a replica of her that starred as HMS Surprise, which makes it worth visiting
http://www.tallshiprose.org/
and
http://shakti.trincoll.edu/~jconstan/hmsrose/home.html
and links, especially as the latter site has some good rigging plans.

Maurice
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Hey Maurice! Thanks for the history of my Cleo! Who Knew! To think, I just bought her because I liked the way she looked!.....Really, thanks. Info on her is hard to come by...believe me, I tried!

Captains Log, Friday, December 19, 2003

Well, I have WONDERFUL news! I've completed 2 more cannons this evening! Total build time.....drum roll please.....4 HOURS! See, I knew I'd get faster! So, 3 down, 12 complete cannons to go, then, of course there are some carronades on the upper decks, and a few Falconets on the rails. I'm not going to count the barrels poking out of my little shadow boxes....after all!, they aren't hardly cannons at all!



Sure would like to hear from you guys! Gil may be out of commission for a little bit, but what's YOUR excuse Darwin!....... and Ron!!!! C'mon guys....don't leave me sailing out here all by myself!!!!

Sincerely,
Larry
Captain, HMS Cleopatra
Paper Navy of the Bear Flag Republic
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Gil

Hello All,

Be another three weeks before the sling gets lost...,

Carrying on with the Mast & Spar Experiments as an aside and also maybe able to produce cannon at around 10X Larrys current rate (have to do the carriages as well so the rate may come down some, the Cleopatra is a 32 gun ship wheras the Victory is 104 guns).

Spar Experiment results photo number 2:



Total span is 12.5 inches and is about 0.375 inches in diameter. Spiral rolled cylinders from 20# Xerox copy paper. Coated with urethane, allowed to dry before assembling by inserting each yard into a center rolled tapered splicing "drum". Center is covered with same weight paper and painted with flat black acrylic. I've decided that there is an easier way than this and will report back soon as those results look good.

Best regards, Gil

The Spar & Mast Experiments continue...,

First a little aside in the armaments department. It's not really anything in particular other than a test vehicle to check out production mehtods and media. Looks real enough to use as standard process for cannon development.



The next picture shows the results of rolling one Xerox 24# copy page with rolled plugs in either end. Simple and easy process. Next step is to cover the resulting helical edges. Rock Hard Water Putty is a leading candidate at this point.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Just a short Update on Cleo's progress. I've given a shot at creating a little "mural" on that bulkhead. Came out OK...not perfect, but a little more interesting that just a black wall...might tweak it a little more before I'm done.



I have all 4 cannons completed that go under the aft deck overhang, now I am deciding how much Tackle to install on them...do I go all out? (see the pic of my cannon diorama back on page 2 of this thread).... or just "Minimal", maybe just the heavy recoil rope? ....haven't decided yet. Either way, I have to do it before I glue down the deck. All this, and the Holiday's upon us, not much time to play with my Cleo, but I'll keep you all posted.

More to come!
Merry Christmas!

Captain Larry
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Wunwinglow

Just a thought.... Could you have used a mirror? Your mural works very well though! It will look excellent through the decks when it is all together!

Seasons Greetings to you and all,

Tim
-----
Lots of Projects, but don't hold your breath....
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By cardfan

Or for that matter some Mylar or some shiny silver Christmas ribbon? There is this package in the living room...


Glen
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Larrymax

Tim and Glen,

A MIRROR! Oh, Please! I have a hard enough time cutting out PAPER....never mind GLASS! Sheesh! And the mylar thing....much more reasonable....but I'm not sure if that wouldn't be too much reflection....I don't want it to look like there's another ship going out the back end...just a few cannon going off in the distance. Remember, too, 1) this is all going to be covered by a deck which hangs 2 inches past this wall 2) There are little life boats in front of it blocking the view, and 3) Nobody's even going to look under there, anyway! Kind of makes me wonder "what the HECK am I doing!!!!"

Larry
Captain and Master of the Inane
Paper Navey of the Bear Flag Republic
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By cardfan

Larry,

In proper paper modeling fashion you are obsessing... That is what we do best isn't it? ;^)

Glen
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Maurice

Larry

Whatever you do, calm down, take another tablet if you have to, but calm down.
Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
The vertical non existent bit should be a partition similar to that at the rear of the forecastle deck. It led to the captain's and officers' accommodation under the Quarterdeck. Internally the accommodation was of dismountable partitions to clear the gun deck for action. What I don't know is whether the visble partition was dismountable. I suspect it may not have been, or at least not fully, since it played a part in the weatherliness of the ship.
The horizontal non existent bit is a companionway leading down from the Upper Deck (or Gun Deck) to the Main Deck, which on the Fifth Raters was the seamens accommodation, fairly generous in frigates with no guns to get in the way. It also provided a source of ventilation (and I imagine much water) I'd suggest covering it with another part 125b as it's so out of sight.

Happy Christmas all
Maurice

(BTW the Rose replica is not a good reference for deck layouts, far too many modern adaptations.)
(BTBTW The bit what's at the back is the Stern Gallery and has now't to do with fanatics with tails. Smile )
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Peter H

Work to your own expectations and enjoy yourself Larry. I plead guilty at being really curious at some amazing work by you and Gil *but thats all*
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Ron

Well guys...you did it and it's all your fault Smile I ordered the Fly Model
Kruzensztern from Hobbyfactory today. I realize this is way over my head
and well beyond anything I should attempt....but it *is* your fault!
I'll join in on the fun as soon as it arrives.
Larry, Gil and everyone, thanks for the inspiration!

All my best for the holidays:)

Ron
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 24, 2004 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By Gil

Ahoy Ron,

The act is done! No recovering from it, it's terminal and will consume you through to the end.

Nice work Larry, he'll bring a tidy sum..., this press gang business is beginning to look like it will prosperous.

Best regards, Gil

[Edited by Gil on 2003-12-25 7:37 PM]

-----
I Got Carded!
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